Diversions by the police? That shooting incident that killed 5 should be investigated thoroughly

Police shot and killed 5 persons...and then they made allegations that these were 'bad' people, and then a family member, and 2 kids were admitted in the hospital after being poisoned, and then the police arrest the husband...and threathened that action will be taken against those who instigated the family to make a police report...[Allegedly, the police have not found the weedkiller yet - so was it even 'suicide'?]

This is all clearly diversionary tactics of the police..

Things are getting tense in the case of housewife R. Seetha who consumed weedkiller after her brother was killed in a police shootout. Her father is now alleging that police had made her sign a letter saying her suicide attempt was not related to her brother’s death.

Rumours were also flying that her husband M. Manimaran had been arrested.

Klang OCPD Asst Comm Mohamed Mat Yusop dismissed the rumours yesterday saying Klang police took Manimaran, 35, to his father’s house as well as his home in Gemencheh to check whether the weedkiller had come from either house.

Bed ridden: Seetha being treated at the Tengku Ampuan Rahimah Hospital in Klang.

Saying police had not found any weedkiller at her parents’ home in Kampung Berempat, Kapar, where the incident occurred, he said she might have brought it from her home in Gemencheh.

On Nov 12, Seetha, 33, had given Darshini, nine, Usha Rani, seven, Yugendran, five and Navina, three, drinks laced with weedkiller before downing a cup of the concoction herself. They are currently at the Tengku Ampuan Rahimah Hospital here.

Seetha, who had come to Klang to attend her younger brother Surenthiran’s funeral earlier last week, was said to have been very depressed over his death.

Surenthiran, 24, was one of five suspected robbers and alleged member of the PCO Boy gang killed during a police shootout on Nov 7.

Contacted at about 8pm yesterday, Manimaran was on his way to Malacca for dinner with the four policemen who had taken him to Gemencheh.

“We left the hospital at about 11.30am and first went to my father’s house where police took away a pesticide pump belonging to my uncle before going to my house,” said Manimaran.

Seetha’s elder brother Balasingam, 35, said they now believed Seetha had planned the suicide before coming for Surenthiran’s funeral but were perplexed as to why she would poison her children as well.

Her father R. Ramapathy, 61, has lodged a report at the hospital’s police beat unit yesterday that the police was trying to “twist” the incident.

“They want to make it look as if Seetha had not tried to kill herself and her children because of her brother’s death.”

He also claimed hospital authorities were barring them from seeing Seetha and the children, adding the police had no business dragging Manimaran away from the hospital when he should be at his family’s side.

Meanwhile, in Petaling Jaya, Selangor police chief Deputy Comm Datuk Khalid Abu Bakar said the force was investigating the purported letter that is now causing tension, reports LOURDES CHARLES.

“We know who the person (who instigated the family to lodge a police report) is. We will investigate the matter thoroughly and if we have sufficient evidence, we will take the person to court.

“It is such people who create animosity and hatred towards the force,” he said in denying police had forced Seetha to sign such a letter.

DCP Khalid said police had only recorded her statement two days ago and they would see her again when she was better.- Star, 16/11/2009, Father alleges police twisting incident

The incident that needs serious investigation the shooting by the police that killed ALL 5 persons (who apparently had 1 gun)

Did the police had any intention to arrest them? Or was it a mission to shoot them all dead. 2 shot dead, 3 shot and arrested would have been more reasonable but for all 5 to have been killed...mmm

The law, i.e. section 15 of the Criminal Procedure Code, tells us how arrest is to be made by  the police. Note that if force is to be used, it must be reasonable - and it must be used for the purpose of affecting the arrest. 

And note that these were not people who have been accused of anything - they are at most suspects.

15.  Arrest, how made.

(1) In making an arrest the police officer or other person making the same shall actually touch or confine the body of the person to be arrested unless there is a submission to the custody by word or action.

(2) If such person forcibly resist the endeavour to arrest him or attempt to evade the arrest such officer or other person may use all means necessary to effect the arrest.

(3) Nothing in this section gives a right to cause the death of a person who is not accused of an offence punishable with death or with imprisonment for life.

The law does not give the right to the police to kill anyone in self defence...or in order to protect innocent by-standards. Anyone know of any such law?

What we need is an independent investigation of the shooting incident.
Why were the police there in the first place? Was it the usual police doing his usual duty, or was it some specialist shooters from the police force?
Have the witnesses been questioned to find out what happened?
How many shots were discharged by the 'dead'? Did they fire first? How many police were there? How many bullets did the police use?
Which of the dead was shot first? Was it the one with the gun? Then, what happened? Did someone else pick up the gun and continue shooting? Or did the police just continue discharging their firearms after the now dead had stopped firing?
Was the actions of the police reasonable?
Could they have arrested them - at least some?
Are the police involved suspended pending investigation into the shooting incident? (Or there is not even any internal investigation...)

Western...American movies are a bad influence for police as they promote a 'far right' position - they talk about the weakness of the justice system that results in many 'bad hats' getting off scot free. It imports the idea that the police should be judge, jury and executioner if 'real justice; is to be done. Is that also the mentality of the Malaysian police?

Police - your duty is to investigate...to arrest the suspect. It is then the duty of the prosecutor to charge the person, and prove the allegations in court. It is the duty of the judge to consider the evidence and determine whether the prosecution has proved its case beyond reasonable doubt - and then the convict the accused, and sentence him accordingly....And, if a person is sentenced to death, it is up to the executioner to carry out the execution [I do not believe that anyone should be killed - I call for the abolition of the death penalty].

Now, that they have all be shot dead - they do not have the chance to defend themselves, and the police do not even have to prove their case...something is very very wrong here, and we need to do something...

I appreciate the fact that the Minister has come out and spoken - but did he do that because the victims were of the same ethnic background as him, or was he moved by a desire for justice and reform?

For years, the civil society has questioned the high number of suspected criminals, mostly Indian Malaysians, being shot dead by the police.

Although the police have consistently claimed that it is always the suspects who draw first blood, forcing them to return fire, certain quarters however find this version hard to digest.

They have accused the police of being trigger-happy and resorting to 'summary executions' as a short-cut measure instead of arresting and prosecuting the suspects.

Some have argued that such actions also robbed suspected criminals of the right to prove their innocence or even the prospect of rehabilitation and turning over a new leaf.

Critics were up in arms once again following Monday's shooting in Klang, which saw five Indian youths, aged between 17 and 24, being killed in what the police later described as an exchange of bullets.

The five were said to be members of the 'PCO Boy' gang, allegedly responsible for a spate of robberies.

Review operational procedures

Commenting on this incident, MIC vice-president and Human Resources Minister Dr S Subramaniam expressed regret over the shooting and extended his condolences to the families.

He also said that it is pertinent for the police force to avoid being perceived negatively by the public.

In view of this, Subramaniam urged the police to review their operational procedures when engaging with suspected criminals.

The minister said while he recognised the right of the police to act in self-defence and to protect innocent bystanders during such operations, it would be good in the long-term if some of the current provisions and tactics in police procedures in taking on suspected criminals are reviewed.

"The incident of (the police) shooting suspects is damaging the image of the force and there is a need to review the procedures so that such incidents can be reduced," he told Malaysiakini.

Subramaniam also said the public must be mindful of the responsibilities and duties of the police force to ensure the safety of the people and that of the policemen.

Meanwhile, the MIC vice-president also noted the alarming rate of Indian youths turning to a life of crime and underscored the importance of addressing the root causes for this.

The youths must be made to understand that crime never pays and those who choose to dabble in it would have to suffer the consequences, he added.

On Tuesday, Federal CID director Mohd Bakri Mohd Zinin denied the allegation that the police preferred to dispose off criminals using the barrel of a gun.

"When police officers shoot, they do not shoot to kill, but rather they shoot to stop the deadly force threat.

"It is clearly within the right of the police to act in self-defence and protect the lives of innocent bystanders," he said in a statement. - Malaysiakini, 13/11/2009, Shootings: Minister urges cops to review procedures

And since the police and the news report say that they were suspected criminals, it seems that Anwar, Kit Siang, Hadi and Pakatan seem to be not so bothered about this yet another shoot to kill incident... Pakatan should take a stand and call for an end of these 'shoot to kill' incidents, and call for an immediate independent and open investigation into this incident...