Sunday, August 10, 2008

PKR,PAS Pakatan Rakyat (not UMNO or BN) that forced Bar Forum to end prematurely

There, leading the protestors that caused the Bar Council organized forum on Saturday(9/8/2008) entitled “Conversion to Islam: Art 121(1A) of the Federal Constitution, Subashini; Shamala Revisited” to end prematurely were Pakatan Rakyat leaders, not UMNO ...not the BN. It was led by PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu parliamentarian Zulkifli Noordin.
A leader of the protesters - PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu parliamentarian Zulkifli Noordin - declared the abrupt end of the forum as a victory for them. By 10.40am, most of the protesters have dispersed.

...The protesters, many of whom are from Muslim welfare organsation Perkida and Islamic party PAS, shouted, “Hancur Bar Council” (Crush Bar Council), “Hidup Islam” (Long Live Islam) and “Batal forum” (Cancel the forum).They are carrying placards saying “Jangan cabar Islam” (Don’t challenge Islam) and “Bar Council, Don’t play with fire”.

....Speaking to reporters later, Zulkifli said that he had led a delegation of four individuals representing the protesters to state their position with Bar Council president Ambiga Sreevenasan and vice president K Ragunath.- Malaysiakini, 9/8/2008, Protesters stop Bar's 'conversion' forum

Is this an indication of what Malaysians can expect if and when the Pakatan Rakyat comes into power? I remember another PKR leader, one Saiffudin Nasution, was the leader of the mob that broke into and disrupted a forum on East Timor (the APCET Forum) many years ago - and he was in UMNO then.

I looked for a response from the PKR, Pakatan Rakyat and/or its de facto leader Anwar Ibrahim, and I saw none -- only a pre-forum disruption comment that he preferred if that session was a closed door affair.

Zulkifli Noordin is not an ordinary member of the PKR, he is an elected MP - a chosen candidate of PKR. If not mistaken, he was in the Supreme Council at one time. (Interestingly, I believe Zulkifli Nordin was and may still be a member of the Bar Council today)

I wait to see the PKR and the Pakatan Rakyat response - either there will be an a 'sanction' against the said Zulkifli Noordin - or we can all take it as an endorsement of the actions of Zulkifli Noordin.

Given the presence of PAS leader, Salahuddin Ayub, PAS will also .ahve to respond.

Maybe, we need a response from the Pakatan Rakyat.

Among the protest leaders seen in the crowd are PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub and Zulkifli. - Malaysiakini, 9/8/2008, Protesters stop Bar's 'conversion' forum
Freedom of expression is one thing. That means, it your right to peacefully assemble and express your protest.

But the barging into the forum, and getting it to stop mid-stream is a totally different thing - it is not acceptable - in fact, that becomes an infringement of the fundamental right of expression.

At 9.50am, a handful of protesters, led by Kulim Bandar Baharu parliamentarian Zulkifli Noordin from Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR), muscled their way to the front of the first-floor auditorium at the Bar Council headquarters in Leboh Pasar Besar here amid an ongoing and lively discussion on the 2006 court case of R. Subashini,... - Malaysian Insider, 9/8/2008 - The day the loudest won the day... or did they?

What makes it worse, was that this was a forum organised by the Bar Council - the same Bar Council, whose lawyers were out there assisting those arrested and detained for illegal assembly including during the Reformasi days, those arrested under the ISA, and ....

What makes it worse, was that this was a balanced forum which saw speakers, who held very different perspectives.

Among the speakers at the forum was syariah lawyer Mohd Haniff Khatri Abdulla. Mohd Haniff represented the Federal Territory’s Islamic Religious Council in the case of R Subashini. K Shanmuga and Ravi Nekoo, who were counsel for Subashini and S Shamala, respectively, also spoke.

...Former Syariah judge and currently the Federal Territory Islamic Department’s syariah prosecutor Dr Mohd Naim Mokhtar pulled out as a panel speaker earlier.- Malaysiakini, 9/8/2008, Protesters stop Bar's 'conversion' forum

And reading the New Straits Times today, frontpage (On Line Edition) - with the heading "Positive Start To Religious Dialogue" , I see something of a different more positive more open stance being taken by the BN government here -- after all, we all know who controls contents of the NST.

Sabariah Abdullah, head of the Allied Coordinating Committee of Islamic NGOs (ACCIN) said in a text message that the meeting "was a good start to express feelings, anxieties and dissatisfactions from both sides".

"Although we can't find all the solutions to the problems, it was a fruitful event."

To continue with this spirit, she said ACCIN was organising two more dialogues at the end of this month with Hindu Sanggam and a Christian group.

"Everyone engaged in inter-religious dialogues must keep an open mind. Listen to what is said, not who says it.

"We must respect others and at the end of the day, celebrate the agreements and respect the idea of 'agreeing to disagree'. We can be different and yet live in harmony; laws of the country must be respected." - New Straits Times, 10/8/2008 ,Positive start to religious dialogue
If the Zulkifli Nordin, Salahuddin Ayub, PKR , PAS, and the Pakatan Rakyat had different viewpoints on the subject matter of the forum, then they should have participated - not try to prevent even the 'forum' or discussion.

Pay heed to the words " "We must respect others and at the end of the day, celebrate the agreements and respect the idea of 'agreeing to disagree'. We can be different and yet live in harmony..."

The people at GE2008 showed more support to the Pakatan Rakyat because they thought it was better than the BN - but after what happened on Saturday, maybe we should re-evaluate.

Maybe, if there is no clarifying response of the Pakatan Rakyat position, be campaigning to ensure that Anwar Ibrahim does not win in Permatang Pauh - or that even if he wins, he does so with a much lesser majority.

WHY? Because many a times, the only way to communicate our displeasure with a particular political parties and politicians is through the ballot box...

Let us wait for the Pakatan Rakyat - PKR response...


Anonymous said...

umno was there under various ngo.

Anonymous said...

It's interesting how you turn this into a "Let's not vote Anwar in PP" issue. UMNO has indeed been very successful in using this kind of event to poison your mindset. Next you may want to call for a total boikot of Pakatan because of the protest of Avril Lavinge concert. You seem to condone the BN policy that each and every member (esp. MP) must follow/obey Party line, or else...

Nostradamus said...

1. An MP and also a lawyer who encourages violence is no MP of mine.
2. It reflects his character and behavior as a racists and satan.
3. Is this the type of MP we want to lead Malaysia into 2020?

Anonymous said...

Let all the voters in Kulim then remember. They have elected a member who does not believe in democracy, who will not hesitate to incite a mob(what else to call it?), who will not even allow people to talk! Let us not forget!

Anonymous said...

Do you think I will still vote Pakatan after this? No way.
What a bunch of bigots.

Fadzil Mashood said...

Nobody against open discussion of religous issues but it should be done in a manner you have participation from religous leaders of all religion, because they are the more understanding of practice on their religions. Law people basically talking on law point of views but most likely will hurt the actual practices of their religions. Why dont they listen to the religious experts before going to discuss about the laws that we can amend to symplify the way to resolve the issues. FYI, religous leaders are more patience and wiser to discuss about any sensitive issues.

Raj Kumar said...

Dear Charles,

You're a moron for not understanding the true meaning of the tactic used by Pas and PKR yesterday for diffusing a potentially explosive situation. By being there Pas and PKR leaders showed their maturity in tackling UMNO goons (i.e GPMS) head on and taking the steam out of their misguided and underhanded protest. Unit Amal of Pas actually stopped UMNO goons from storming the bar council building

Raj Kumar said...

Dear Charles,

You're obviously too dimwitted to understand the tactic that PKR and Pas used yesterday to diffuse a potentially explosive situation, the Amal wing of Pas actually saved the bar council building form being stormed by UMNO goons (i.e GPMS), cant you see that this is exactly what UMNO needs to declare a state of emergency

Anonymous said...

Why are you hitting on Pakatan Rakyat alone? The cause of te forum stoppage was BOTH UMNO and PAS, PKR.

Lets see, if you so dislike Pakatan Rakyat, whats your solution?

Come on, put your hand on your heart and say with UMNO now in Govt, you think the forum wont stop be stopped????

So, stop putting politics into this.

Dont you understand all Malays wanted to stop this forum!!!

Just because Pakatan doesnt want to say anything, why blame them?

ASK YOUSELF, would UMNO have allowed this to continue!!!

By staying silent and talking behind closed doors its much better than inflaming a explosive situation!!!!

Anonymous said...

Please read the news report and firsthand accounts as to what transpired that day.

Yes, members of PAS and PKR were there, but so were UMNO members and organizations linked with UMNO.

Bar Council had the right to hold the forum and similarly, the protesters had a right to protest.

Do not simply clump all the protesters into one. Read a bit more to know who are the extremists and who are not.

Read this report from Malaysiakini

To say that PKR and PAS and not UMNO or BN that forced the forum to stop is simply not true.

Al-Yasar said...

Forum yang menyentuh sensiviti orang Melayu itu telah menyebabkan pemimpin dari pelbagai parti politik (PAS dan PKR dll ) bersatu untuk menentangnya.

Pemimpin UMNO juga banyak yang menentang. Tidak bacakah kenyataan Ahamd Zahid Hamidi dll?

Anonymous said...

Earlier Anwar announced that he will contest in Bandar Bahru Kulim but now Permatang Pauh.Now,all the sudden this fellow Zul make a mockery of PKR.Ada yang tak kena ini.Musuh dalam selimut.

Anonymous said...

Yes, this is a sensitive issue. But our main issue right now is that our country is going down the drain. What can this forum do to help? (ask yourself). We do not require to hold such forum at this time. Do not let this detract you from our primary goal which is to have a change in Government. I believe someone cleverly played this up to stir racial hatred among Malaysian.

Anonymous said...

Many, after having seen the Msiakini videos called those protestors "thugs", "gangsters" etc. Yes this is the face of an ugly mob.
But let's face it. This is the reality. They represent the people who feel threatened, made to feel insecure. Which makes it all the more important for the "intelligentsia" like the bar council to tread warily and carefully. Why make it an open public forum? Like they too are spoiling for a fight with their in=your-face attitude.
We now have a political climate that is not very healthy, shall we say? And we do not need to add a religious dimension to it.
So what do we do? I suggest the Bar Council and other interested parties really make a serious effort to sit down with the govt, elected reps, and ask for a meeting with Syariah officials, Muftis and imams to deal with the outstanding issues.
Not an open public forum like the one on Sunday with speakers who have no clout with the other side.
You await reaction from PAS, PKR:to explain themselves vis-a-vis the bar forum. To me, that's just more politics. It doesn't address the issues at hand. And we have many.

Yes, engage the Syariah practitioners and experts. Away from the public glare.

Anonymous said...

So then, PR is no different from BN really. All BN needs to do to win over the people now is to overhaul and clean up corruption once and for all, and bingo!, they'll win.

Anonymous said...

PKR's Zulkifili Nordin will be the "cause" for DSAI fall in Permatang Pauh.

Anonymous said...

yB charles,

you should resign from dap in protest.

you whine more about pakatan than BN.

you slapping the great kit siang and karpal in the face also

Malaysian Malaysia said...

Zulkifli Noordin has 'failed the expected profile' of a Member of Parliament for a Multi-racial 'Malaysian Malaysia'.

Some and a few PR leaders will drop off along the hard road towards 'Mandate from Heaven this Nation awaits'.

Kulim Bandar Baru "Election Court forced by-election" is coming soon.

Hope Pakatan Rakyat PKR leadership will field a new & real multi-racial candidate to contest.

Syabas Barisan Rakyat .

chteh said...

mr anwar pls give us an or pkr it is of no use for the minority. boycourt the pmtg pauh byelection. i don't think you can be a good leader with all this people around's really a sad day for those who expect democracy and fair play.

Charles Hector said...

Sorry but a small technical slip caused about 5 comments to be deleted and not published - 1 of which was a statement from an MIC Youth Group.

It would be good if you do re-post your comments again.

And, by the way let me clarify that Charles Santiago, and not me (Charles Hector) is that MP for Klang.


In solidarity,

Charles Hector