PR, take a stand NOW on their Bar Forum "storm-troopers" - not after Aug 26.

"Closed door discussions" - that is what the possibly soon to be former government has always been doing and then coming out with a statement that this decision or that decision had been made. Who were the persons in that closed-door discussion? How do you choose them? What were the points raised this way, and that -- all this would be denied the people if one were to adopt the position that it should be a closed-door dialogue or discussion. We must be open -- and mature.

Mature in a sense that we are willing to listen and appreciate the points made by others, and take it into consideration. Mature is the putting forward of our points for the consideration of others. Mature is not the calling of names ---"Babi", etc... Mature is not the rediculing of others.

But alas, Malaysians do not really have good examples about how to be mature and be able to conduct proper discussions. Just look at our Parliament - see how they behave. Name calling, and all. There really was not much of a debate in the past (my hope that things would be better in the future). I believe, if the live telecast of the Parliamentary proceedings is from start to end of the parliament session, then the quality of our Parliament and its debate may improve because the rakyat will be watching...and evaluating them MPs. {No need to have any special commentator, or editing - just broadcast what is happening in the Dewan, as has been broadcasted through CCTV throughout the Parliament in the lobby, kantin, etc... there should not be any real increase in cost there. InThailand, it has been full broadcast for a long time..

Back to 'closed' or 'open' dialogue/discussion - I am an advocate of OPEN dialogue...OPEN Forums...OPEN Discussions. Every person should have a right to participate - to express an opinion - to lobby a position...

No more secret meeting where REPS sit and dialogue. For the Indians, most likely someone from MIC, for the Chinese, someone from MCA and for the Malays, someone from UMNO - that is how the BN did it ....but the fact is that political parties really do not represent the majority of the people in Malaysia. What is their membership? We are 27 million....

Can the Wakil Rakyats be representing us .... how can this be for they do not even meet the rakyat and get their views and comments. Many wakil rakyat are seen during the period before the elections and thereafter for some fuctioon here and there - but really, there is almost no opportunity for the people to meet with their MPs and/or ADUN.

Priests, Imams, etc -- come..come. They may be good for theological debates and discussions BUT many are really not in touch with the reality of their flock..

So, at the end of the day, I cannot agree with Anwar Ibrahim and the PKR about the fact that it should be 'behind closed doors'...

He [Dr Syed Husin Ali , PKR Deputy President] said PKR fully supported its adviser Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim’s view that the seminar should be organised behind closed doors, in view of the sensitive reactions and wrong perception among a section of the Malay-Muslim population. - Star Online, 11/8/2008 - PKR mulls over action on MP who stormed forum. -

Now, it was an ordinary forum but then people (who should have been more responsible) made it 'sensitive' and 'controversial' by their very statements to the media, and that included our DPM, Najib - who now rather than speak against the 'childish' badly behaved mob that barged in and caused an early end of the forum goes on happily with an "I told you so" statement and further brainwashing the ordinary Malaysian ninto thinking that such issues are 'sensitive'

Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said he had expected the extreme reaction to occur as the council ignored advice to call off the forum.

“We had expected this to happen. I’ve already said this before, don’t make it an open forum, do it behind closed doors. There will surely be some form of extreme reaction that will occur (if it was held openly).

“We’ve expected the incident to happen because the issue that was to be discussed is sensitive,” he said ..." Star Online, 11/8/2008 -Najib: Bar Council’s persistence caused extreme reaction

Now, there was a full crowd at the forum - and everything was going on well and nice -- until the group of protestors entered the venue and caused the forum to end prematurely. People were interested in the topic - people came to hear the different views. People also may have wanted to express their own views (but maybe the premature ending prevented did deprive many their rights to have their voices heard...to express themselves)

SENSITIVE - what is the sensitive about the forum.

Is it in any way advocating the abolition of the Syariah Court? NO

Is it in any way undermining Islam? NO

So, what are the concerns that results in people discussing Art 121(1A) and those cases...

Well, I am NOT very well versed about the various issues, but some concerns have cropped up in the past few years ..

When a man converts to Islam..and leaves (or do not leave) his non-Muslim wife, what happens when he dies? From the wealth and property he leaves behid, would his non-Muslim wife, his non-Muslim children, his non-Muslim parents and his non-Muslim dependents get anything. (without this inheritance, it may cause great hardship especially for the lower middle income families..)*** Does the Syariah law provide for this situation? Not really - so what do we do?

When a man converts to Islam - and his wife does not.What happens to the faith of the children? In terms of divorce, who will get custody of the children of the marriage? Interesting...

A man dies -- and suddenly his friends come and say that he is a Muslim. To his immediate family, he is not. What happens in this kind of situation? Who decides? What happens to the body..the funeral..etc..?

Such kinds of issues have been cropping up for a very long time, but over the past few years it has attracted the attention of the media and the public... and whatever the solution, it is something that cannot be rushed into ..and there is a NEED for real open discussion of the various concerns, issues and the possible Malaysian solutions...

SENSITIVE?...Well, it is time for 50 over years old Malaysia(and Malaysians) to grow up and start looking at the DIFFICULT MATTERS , yes reasonably look at it, and work out a solution...No more pushing it under the carpet and pretending it does not exist...or that it may go away on its own...

Name calling and breaking into forums...is not the answer...serious discussions, dialogues..is the way towards a GOOD Malaysian solution.

Well, back to the 'storm-troopers' of the Bar Forum, what about them - What is your stand PR, PKR, PAS, DAP? You cannot just ignore the fact that one was a chosen one - a Pakatan Rakyat MP, a PKR MP...and the other name mentioned was a PAS leader..

So, PKR has stated that they will be taking action against their BUT at the same time there is word that they would like to delay it to after the Permatang Pauh by-elections...and the reason is that they do not want to offend certain quarters...and do not want to jeopardize loss of some needed votes (Importantly, Zulkifli is the current MP of the nearby Kulim-Bandar Baharu constituency - and no wants him(and his supporters) to now start campaigning against the PKR because action is being taken against him..)

This is LAME - the people need to know the PKR stand on this.

The people also need to know the PAS stand on this as one PAS leader was also involved... and they want to know NOW.

We want to know the PAKATAN RAKYAT position - they possibly may be the next government of Malaysia.

For, if not, I am sure whether

- what happened that Saturday at the Bar Forum;

- and the lack of action on the part of PKR, PAS and the Pakatan Rakyat

may (or may not) have an impact in the coming by-elections.

When a clear stance is made, and action is taken(or not taken) against the 'storm-troopers' - some may not be happy...but we cannot help that. Our stance and position must be based on principle and good values - and will be a clear indication of what we REALLY are (not what we pretend to be)

***Some comments to the earlier post also say that UMNO was involved - and maybe so, but the media reports refered to Zulkifli as leader and named a PAS leader as being present. In that case, UMNO and BN also must make their stance clear...very clear and soon.

PKR is expected to discuss action to be taken against its Kulim-Bandar Baharu MP Zulkifli Noordin for his behaviour during a protest against the Bar Council forum on “embracing Islam.”

Party deputy president Dr Syed Husin Ali said PKR condemned the “rough action” of a small band of the demonstrators who “shouted rude and uncivilised language” against the organisers and forum participants on Saturday.

“We regret that unfortunately the ‘fiercest’ among them was someone known to be a lawyer and Member of Parliament,” Dr Syed Husin said in a statement issued yesterday.

While the statement did not mention names, Dr Syed Husin, when asked if disciplinary action would be taken against Zulkifli who led protesters into the forum hall, said many PKR leaders and members wanted it to be raised.

“I assume it will be discussed at the party level although at the moment we have bigger things to focus on,” he said of PKR’s preparation for the Permatang Pauh by-election.- Star Online, 11/8/2008 - PKR mulls over action on MP who stormed forum.

I must state that they had a right to peacefully protest - express their opposition to the holding of the forum. That is their right ....

BUT when they entered (or stormed in) the forum and caused it to end prematurely, that was wrong...

(Of course, the calling of names, etc... is bad..)